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ACC versus RC44
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najevi
Capitaine


Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 235
Location: Gold Coast (Australia)

PostPosted: 11 Jul 2010 0:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jean-Luc wrote:
In the community, ACC is used for the match races when RC44 is prefered in team races. Why ?


admiral wrote:
The RC44 model was, if not exclusively, chosen and made with team racing in mind.

As the ACC model was made and chosen with with match racing in mind.


Does the RC44 offer any advantage to the skipper using manual sail trim as opposed to auto sail trim?
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David_Number1
Matelot


Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 89

PostPosted: 11 Jul 2010 5:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Sourire

In team racing I think the draw card is the tactical sailing aspect, so the rc44 is really good in that it's so easy to sail everyone is pretty well as fast as everyone else.
Match racing there is more emphasis on boat handling and getting the last 1% out of the boat, so the ACC is a good for that because it is much harder to sail really fast.
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admiral
Amiral


Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 304
Location: Nederland

PostPosted: 12 Jul 2010 11:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I remember the RC44 as model was chosen because it was expected to raise enough interest. There was a lot of communication with the RC44 class organization. Boat parameters practically had to be invented, like a retractable bowsprit, big rudder, centralised mass (read manouvrabillity) etc. Then the models behavior was fitted to the RC44's real behavior (minus a lot that just could no be made to work, like backing jibs). Then compromising behavior elsewhere to compensate for stuff that could not be made to work, (like backing jib)

The ACC for example then had some automated "backing jib" function that made the boat automatically bear down from head to wind as soon as the boat speed dropped below 1 knot. (not quite desirable in team racing when stopping the boat near a mark) The RC44 was made to slow down considerably when luffing head to wind and deccelerate backwards, and given considerable acceleration to compensate. It was made to broach wildly when sailing to high with the kite up in stronger winds (where normally you'ld break the boat). Then passing lanes were widened, keeping VMG level at a broader range of courses, even across sails. Aka. code 0 at 10 Kts will still sail with better VMG at lower angle then genoa at higher angle.

Then everything was screened for playability and game play, broaching was stripped completely and downwind speed of 20 kts of wind and more was increased considerably. Perfect for teamraces in winds of 5 kts to 20 kts. and real fun for the speed and surf junkies at force 7 winds

For compatibility reasons testing was so extensive that no updates would be needed, there will be updates only with a new VSK version.

In the end the RC44 is an immense popular community build boat model,
even if everyone including me finds something to dislike about it.
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M-1
Capitaine


Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 259
Location: Russia

PostPosted: 12 Jul 2010 16:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

admiral wrote:
As far as I remember the RC44 as model was chosen because it was expected to raise enough interest...

Specify pls, interest has fallen to what? Due to bad ... ACC32, team races, RRS...?

Quote:

... In the end the RC44 is an immense popular community build boat model,..

... which reminds good ACC boat in VSK3?

Quote:

... even if everyone including me finds something to dislike about it.

Agree. Tr?s content
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admiral
Amiral


Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 304
Location: Nederland

PostPosted: 12 Jul 2010 18:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Specify pls, interest has fallen to what? Due to bad ... ACC32, team races, RRS...?


Basically in vsk you can make any boat behave as you want. One could for example make a badtub behave like Volvo70.

Once it was decided that the VSK models weren't up to par when it comes to team racing, an interesting type of boat was sought that a would induce players to try it out. The real RC44 is exciting to race so interest would be high the moment the model was ready. It was and imo still is.
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Jean-Luc
Matelot


Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 114

PostPosted: 17 Jul 2010 10:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank all for your messages. I have understood that the RC44 was defined to approach what the models used in the real races are.

As I never sailed in real Team Races, I had no prerequisites on the boat qualities needed. I like the ACC in TR because :

1/ the tactical options have to be taken with care due to the inerty of this heavy boat. When I watched some RC44 races, I saw the boats changing their course many times with not allways serious consequences
.
2/ I also think there are more faults (pens) in RC44 due to her manoeuvrability used even in the hot spots (2 length zone's marks). Umpiring such fast events would be difficult.

3/ In brief, a RC44 race equals an ACC race but with a far greater intensity which could make me mad. So I preserve my health in using the ACC Tr?s content, just a question of taste.

Cheers,

jiel
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JHL
mousse


Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 43

PostPosted: 22 Jul 2010 19:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For compatibility reasons testing was so extensive that no updates would be needed, there will be updates only with a new VSK version.


Is the RC44's slingshot feature - round a bottom mark at high speed under spi to run upwind momentarily across the stern of an upwind tacking boat so as to pen him - something that will be addressed?

I've never been on a RC44 but it seems a 44' keel boat cannot and should not behave this way; no 30' to 40' one designs I've raced on exhibit this behavior. I'd vote that the 44 shouldn't be as much of a cartoon as the Melges. It's true the ACC is a dog on bottom mark roundings but the RC44 is unrealistically hyperactive.
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Alx
mousse


Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 11

PostPosted: 23 Jul 2010 10:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

JHL wrote:

I've never been on a RC44 but it seems a 44' keel boat cannot and should not behave this way; no 30' to 40' one designs I've raced on exhibit this behavior. I'd vote that the 44 shouldn't be as much of a cartoon as the Melges. It's true the ACC is a dog on bottom mark roundings but the RC44 is unrealistically hyperactive.


I agree
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David_Number1
Matelot


Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 89

PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010 9:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is fun though Tr?s content

And it does add another skill to sailing them...

I don't mind it
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Alx
mousse


Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 11

PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010 10:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure is fun, I find myself sailing more nowadays the RC than Acc...

Ofcourse you have to comprise with the level of madness sometimes on the public RC races, which however adds up to satisfaction
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